Very recently I was lined up to debate whether MAGA is a cult with someone else arguing that it's not. Very unfortunately this debate, which was to appear on @LadyLisa77's blog, isn't likely to happen despite her being a very honest broker-cum-peacekeeper and despite me wanting a civilised exchange with someone representing MAGA.
Rather than waste my words, I thought I'd reproduce them here. Below is my pitch arguing that MAGA is best understood as a cult.
My argument is simple. Make America Great Again (MAGA) is a cult. I'm not saying that every Trump supporter/voter is a cult member but that many MAGA supporters behave like a cult member.
I'm defining a cult simply as a group or movement of followers totally devoted to the ideas and commands of its leadership. I'm going to look at MAGA's leadership and followship to demonstrate that it's a cult.
Obviously, Donald Trump is the unrivalled leader of MAGA, though he has been assisted by others. Trump sees himself as a strong leader expecting unquestioning obedience from his supporters. He doesn't tolerate any dissent from inside and outside the MAGA camp. Those who do not go along with what Trump says are trashed, ostracised and punished.
Many MAGA supporters give their unthinking, uncritical and undying support to their leader. They have been manipulated, indoctrinated and even brainwashed to serve the interests of MAGA's leadership. The storming of the Capitol on 6 January 2021 showed how Trump manipulated his followers to use violence to serve his interests. This was an attempted coup d'état from where I was standing.
In the MAGA cult, like any cult worthy of its name, truth is denied, subverted and reinvented. For example, despite no credible evidence presented, Trump claimed that the 2020 presidential election was stolen from him and many of his followers blindly believed his twisted claim. Another example is Trump's persistent claim that climate change is a hoax, another claim uncritically accepted by many MAGA followers.
It's almost impossible for anyone outside the MAGA cult to have a reasoned, evidenced and even a polite discussion with its members. Its cult members blindly buy into the doomsday scenario that without their leader's intervention America will no longer be great again. This is rubbish as America was already great before Trump came to power. But this myth of America being enfeebled by marauding migrants and scavenging foreigners is perpetuated by the MAGA cult.
That's my argument. MAGA is essentially a cult cut off from the cultured norms of the rest of the world, whose members are living in an alternative reality in which scientific reason holds no sway. MAGA is a cult!
That's my pitch that MAGA is a cult. I'm not arguing that MAGA is a death cult, but it may turn out to be that. Instead I'm arguing that MAGA can be and is probably best understood as a cult movement. What do you think?
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27 comments
I am not one that will know what a cult is or isn’t. What I do know is that Trump is a con man who is grifting the American public. What I also know is he lies about pretty much everything. This is based on facts. Everything he accuses others is really what he is actually doing.
The folks he actually need help like the poor, veterans and women are losing any help as long as his rich Oligarch friends get all the tax breaks. He talks a mean game like most con men do, but his actions don’t help anyone other than him and the rich.
In past elections regardless who won the election, I would support who was in office because that is what Americans did. Now, if you don’t wear the same hat so to speak, the other party wants to demonize you and bash your head in. This goes for both parties.
That is why I prefer to limit my time watching this madness making history. It eats at me and takes up my valuable time. I refused to let it eat at my peace. Will things ever get better? Will we ever have a time where we will be more tolerable of others? Time tells all.
Trump's lies are brazen and endless. I hope one day civilised politics returns to the public domain though I suspect it will take considerable time to de-MAGAtise things.
Haven’t seen you on my blog in ages! Missed you!
Supporters present cult-like behavior. They're always ready to reject anything that doesn't align narrative. If the great orange says 2+2 is 19873527, then that will be the new truth. 2+2 will no longer equal 4 in their minds and if anybody says otherwise, they're spreading fake news.
Unfortunately, Trump's many alternative truths, which most people call outright lies, are believed as facts by his diehard believers!
In my humble opinion ... The far right and the far left people are both cults. They both believe unfounded and unproven things. Crazy crap. Then there is the rest of us that think ...
Cults, given certain circumstances, can pop up anywhere.
I don’t know if it’s a cult but I think many of them have been brainwashed by Fox News or the YouTube rabbit hole.
As mentioned, my words were meant for a debate that never came off. I deliberately didn't mention any counter-arguments.
I think the biggest weakness in my argument is that MAGA members aren't encouraged to withdraw from the outside world (say, family and friends). But I don't think it's a fatal flaw as cults in practice rarely conform to the perfect stereotype of a cult.
To the left, it is a cult. To the right, it is a cause. To the media, it is click bait. To the politicians, it is the bane of their existence or the end of their career or a pathway to maybe success. To the world, it may be seen as a helping hand or a move to get them off of the dole. It is a perception or a reality. No one really knows. Just imo. I don’t sweat it. I just listen, learn and find my own answer. I will not argue it because the argument will only reault in animosity. However, I am intrigued by the whole dog and pony show of today’s political arena.
I'm not sure a cult can be solely defined how someone sees things. There have been many rigorous studies of cults, especially religious cults, and common characteristics of a cult can be easily found.
Not sure if a cult , but from the opinions of voters to a republican pollster ,looks like US in for a tough period.
Given Frank Luntz's Republican background, his words are worrying to say the least.
@spunkycumfun The last time the US was this poliarised was between the industrial north and the agrarian south , and we know how that was partially solved.
@taurean62dbn Exactly. I can't rule out a civil war, much as I would like to rule it out. American politics is so divided that I can't readily see a non-violent resolution.
@spunkycumfun Was watching the former president of Goldman Sachs discussing US and China , he said it is not a competition of democracy vs communism but rather plutocracy vs meritocracy , seems the US oligarchs have to decide a common plan for the future of the country for this to be resolved.
@taurean62dbn My guess is that there'll be no such debate happening in America.
@spunkycumfun From leaked chats there was and maybe still is, but they could not agree on way forward , this chat group included both democrat and Trump supporting billionaires . David Sachs and Mark Cuban were part of the chat group.
@taurean62dbn I don't believe Trump is capable of taking in the pros and cons of a debate.
@spunkycumfun Lol. hopefully they do not agree , because we know how the US solves leaders that go against their interests.
@taurean62dbn Assassination isn't used enough in America. But then that leaves the problem of Vance. Oh god!
@spunkycumfun Lol. you see , the cure may be worst than the disease. The English have the best way of getting rid of their problem leaders they just promote them to the House of Lords
@taurean62dbn That's probably the case to be made for the House of Lords!
@spunkycumfun Was trying to figure what is the underlying US culture , and coming up blank , found this podcast that may shed some light
@terracamo That sounds like a perfect deal!
@taurean62dbn Thanks for the interesting clip. I particularly liked Michael Brenner's analysis of Donald Trump, a clinical narcissist!
@spunkycumfun The silver lining is his intellectual incompetence and he lumps European leaders in same basket , and i would include my lot. The fallacy of trickle down economics ,which never made sense started by Reagan and turbo charged by Clinton , also became policy here has now come home to roost.
@spunkycumfun Why did i not think to do this , after a few drinks , going to ask same question for my govt .
@taurean62dbn The AI fact-checking was very good and its predictions seem very credible. Oh dear!
@spunkycumfun I needed more alcohol after the response i got on my countries politics.
@taurean62dbn I best not do an AI prediction for British politics given that the Reform UK party, a British version of MAGA, is on the rise here.
@spunkycumfun Lol, i would advise against , I thought no UK PM could be worse than Blair , but Starmer is proving me wrong
.
@taurean62dbn Apart from his Iraq folly, Blair is held in high regard here. Starmer was dealt a weak hand. His options are quite limited given the economic outlook. He plays it very safe.
@spunkycumfun He is like Clinton , great at commuication , but when you look at the laws and regulations passed , they where more detrimental in the long term to the working class and society . Lol, is a reason they both created the New Left . But hey i was not impressed with Obama either. My politics is a mixture going by US politicians of Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul.
@taurean62dbn Blair was lucky in that he presided over a growing economy which meant better public services. But, as you say, he was a great communicator. He managed to persuade normally Tory voters to side with New Labour. That has to be done by any serious politician wanting to gain power.
Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul, that's quite a mix of socialism and libertarianism.
@spunkycumfun Interesting discussion ,
@taurean62dbn Very interesting. I'm amazed that America wants to redraw, whether reform or replace, the existing Bretton woods architecture which has largely worked in America's favour since its inception. I know Trump has ordered a review of America's involvement in the IMF (plus the World bank). If America pulls out of the IMF I suspect that would prompt a global financial crisis and certainly a dedollarisation of the world.
Trump doesn't seem to care about America's debt as he tries to introduce tax cuts which will only increase debt as DOGE savings will be far from sufficient to finance those tax cuts.
Worryingly, this may lead to America defaulting on its debt or at least calling a debt holiday. There's one thing a small developing country defauilting on its debt but it's another thing for the richest state in the world to do it.
@spunkycumfun The problem for the US this was always on the cards if debt got out of control after leaving the gold standard. Prior to 9/11 debt was being reduced and controlled , and reduction in military spending. All that went out the window with the War on Terror , which allowed a one line budget item for the war for all those years, not overseen by congress. 9/11 was a cash bonanza for the Pentagon after the cuts with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Now hard choices have to be made , and neither party wants to accept. The dollar as a means of trading will remain , as sterling still remained after WW1 even though US became the dominant economy, was phased out over decades . I think Trump expected the chinese to come hat in hand and have a new Plaza Accord to solve US issues, but China seems went off scrip. Now policy is being made up as it goes , check this out
@taurean62dbn It all makes for grim reading (and hearing)!
@spunkycumfun I expected out of the two US creations the EU and Asean , the EU nations with their history of power politics to manage the turmoil the best but it seems Asean has got a better handle on the coming crisis .
@taurean62dbn Perhaps size has got the better of the EU. It has 27 member states compared to ASEAN's ten member states. Also, ever since the admission of Eastern Europe's former communist states its interests have become less coherent.
@spunkycumfun Lol ,maybe they should go for the India option with its 28 states . but then that not a great model either but better than the curret EU model.
@taurean62dbn I think I'd far sooner be an EU than an Indian citizen.
@spunkycumfun Lol , i meant the federation charter
. Most forget it really is a federation of states .
@taurean62dbn At best the European Union can be seen as a confederal structure with sovereign power lying with its member states who hand sovereign power to EU institutions (not too different than the US), particularly the European Commission in trade matters.
Unlike ASEAN, the EU has always had designs to be a political entity.
Hi S,
Interesting post! as always.
I don't have enough information to say for sure whether it's a cult, but maybe. My understanding of American society and the idiosyncrasies of its citizens isn't deep enough, and as a foreigner, I prefer to refrain from expressing an opinion... unless their actions directly affect me, and often does.
But what I do feel fairly confident about is that when the Western left threw itself into the arms of the so-called "woke" culture: absurd and contrary to common sense, it created such a backlash among people who genuinely consider themselves left-wing that many either stopped voting or turned to right-wing parties. And I'm not just referring to the U.S.
What was the need to turn to "wokeness"? I doubt a shipyard or construction worker identifies with the absurd things the woke agenda promotes: and worse, tries to impose.
What I see is that both the so-called left and the so-called right have run out of real ideological arguments and now resort to emotion and sensationalism to win votes. That’s a very bad sign, and it shows that our Western society has run out of ideas, out of direction.
That worries me deeply, but I can’t do much about it other than be grateful that I’ve reached an age where I probably won’t live to see the final disaster this lack of ideas is leading us to. The West used to be where Reason ruled, and that made us great (yes, we were great), but we’ve abandoned it in favor of frivolity and virtue signaling, and we’ll pay the price.
Anyway, I hope I’m wrong…
Politics, especially American politics, has become increasingly divided. I'm not sure it's down to the rise of woke, whatever that is. I think the global (or at least Western) banking/financial crisis of 2008, covid and rising energy prices, in particular, have fractured politics.
@spunkycumfun
Exactly, I agree with you. But on top of that, there's the rise of social media (you know I don’t like it at all), which has distorted everything, because sometimes I get the impression that politicians are more concerned about what happens on social media and what's considered acceptable or not there: which is just a virtual world, than about what people truly think and want for their real lives. In any case, things aren't looking good. We'll see...
@AuraAviatik6 I agree that social media has amplified such divisions. It should be called anti-social media!
This coming from the left who failed to believe Biden was/is a walking Zombie.. I actually feel sorry for Joe and the Democrats that believe what CNN… MSBC
If you haven't noticed I'm from Britain not America.
You've missed the whole point of this blog post. It wasn't at all about Trump vs Biden or Republican vs Democrat.
But your comment does seem to add force to my argument that MAGA is a cult.
@RiskA2025 I disagree with you. There's no single European media. Media outlets in Europe, like I suspect in America, vary widely.
The media I follow gives a lot of coverage to American politics, far more than American media generally gives European and indeed world politics. Whenever I visited America, I was always amazed (and not in a good way) how insular American news reporting is. Of course, there are exceptions like The New York Times, CNN and USA Today.
I'm not going to be brushed under the carpet for being a European following American politics. My sources of American politics are very varied ranging from American to British/European sources, from academic to non-academic sources, and from right-wing to left-wing sources.
The person who you seem to be defending missed the point of my post. This post wasn't about whether MAGA is good or bad, we all have our different views on that, but whether MAGA can be regarded as a cult.
Your argument that there was a Nancy Pelosi cult in California also misses the point and certainly doesn't detract from my observation made from afar that MAGA is essentially a cult.
@RiskA2025 You're right I don't like what MAGA stands for, but I've been very careful how I've crafted my words.
I don't believe, as polls suggest, that Trump's diehard supporters will desert him when the shit hits the fan.
A cult is a relationship between its leadership and followship. My views about MAGA doesn't change the definition I've adopted. I've been impartial here.
And please don't patronise me! I'm not stupid. I well recognise that beliefs become facts to those who believe.
I'm going to ask you three questions which I hope you'll answer just as I've addressed your concerns about me.
First, you talked about European echo chambers. What do you mean by that? Have you ever visited Europe?
And second, are you so sure that your beliefs don't affect what you see as truth?
Lastly, what's your definition of a cult?
I believe President Biden was slowing down. He’s older! But not as bad as they said.
@SNGLDADLKNFORFUN Please don't patronise me. I know very well what MAGA stands for. My argument, if you read my post, is that America was already great before Trump took office.
And where in my post did I say Joe Biden was a great US President. You're just making it up.
You are talking out of your bottom regarding Europe.
I don't care whether you want me to visit America or not. I will visit again when I want to.
Please don't visit my blog again with your indoctrinated nonsense.
PS. Have you heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect?
@lindoboy100 I've just sent you a mail.
@SNGLDADLKNFORFUN There's no such thing as common sense.
Police officers here aren't routinely armed, some are, especially in airports, but most aren't. That is a fact.
I may be many things but stupid isn't one of them>
I feel I know quite a bit about American politics; I follow it closely and i studied, taught and researched it as a university lecturer. surely I'm allowed to exercise my free speech and air my views about America.
I do on occasion, especially about climate change, try to persuade people but I certainly don't indoctrinate anyone. Can you give me one example when I.ve done this? There's a big difference between persuasion and indoctrination. To be honest, I don't think you read my blog posts to form an informed opinion.
By the way, I'm not on the far left.
I'm not deleting your comment.
I hope this is the end of the exchange that is going nowhere.
@SNGLDADLKNFORFUN I'm all for a civilised discussion. Of course you have the right to say you like MAGA. All I ask for is an evidence-based discussion.
There have been many times I've seen MAGA people spout untruths (eg Kennedy Jr's views on vaccines). I've just had an exchange with one MAGA supporter here who claimed there are no hate speech laws in America; this simply isn't true.
I would also call out non-MAGA people if they were peddling untruths.
Though I have my politics, based on values, I try hard to ensure that my ideology doesn't get in the way of seeing the facts and interpreting the evidence.
I will readily admit that I sometimes get things wrong. When that happens I admit my mistake, apologise and correct the error.
@SNGLDADLKNFORFUN Like I said earlier, I call people out when they get their facts wrong and especially the big facts - if they've got a date or spelt a name wrong, I let that go. One of my biggest battles on this site was with a left-wing Democrat. I had to block him because he was attacking everyone who commented on my blog posts.
My post arguing that MAGA is a cult was evidenced, reasoned and nuanced. I reviewed the literature on what a cult is and then compared MAGA to what a cult is. Though MAGA doesn't display all the traits of a cult, it displays sufficient for me to argue it is a cult.
Now of course you don't have to agree with my argument.
I have never tried to silence anyone. The only time I block people is when they are being abusive to me or others. I never delete comments posted by others.
Repeatedly people (MAGA) have tried to silence me by arguing that as I'm not an American, I shouldn't have a view on MAGA. This is baloney, as Trump's America affects every country in the world including Britain. Also issues affecting America (migration, for example) are being faced by Britain and other countries. There's a party here called Reform UK, now riding high in the polls, which is MAGA writ small.
Finally I fear America is sliding into fascism. I have been brought up to resist fascism (as well as racism). Fascism wins when people don't speak out.
@SNGLDADLKNFORFUN Obviously I'm not condoning you being abused. I have been abused many times this year by MAGA trolls. I can't list all the insults but 'liberal retard' , 'communist' and 'European trash' stand out.
I'm no communist but I am liberal but not in the sense that most Americans see liberal. Liberal seems to mean Democrat in America. Given I'm British, I cannot vote Democrat.
Trump is over here on a state visit. He's been kept away from the public because of security reasons and because the British government doesn't want Trump to see the mass of protesters here.
@SNGLDADLKNFORFUN I forgot to say that I've been wished dead by one MAGA troll, told never to visit America again by many trolls, and told to shut up repeatedly.
@SNGLDADLKNFORFUN Thanks for your apology. Civilised debate is always the way forward.
YES, surely MAGA is a cult!
Hope you had or having a good trip.
Yes MAGA is a hateful cult
There's a lot of hate within MAGA.
Thanks for stopping by.
Yes the man you wanted to debate with on my blog is a great guy. But I noticed he hasn’t been on aff for several days when i checked yesterday. I tried to contact him but so far no response. Hope he’s ok.
I too hope he's okay.
Myself and others have been saying this for years. It is too easy to look at other cults, how they operate and see how this is also a cult. The only part I could possible question is that in cults, anyone who leaves is more than just an outcast. I have not really seen this much with the average maga follower.
Cults have their differences. In many cults, its members are discouraged and even forbidden to make contact with the outside world, eg family, friends. That isn't the case with MAGA ... yet!
@spunkycumfun yes, there are a few missing pieces from a cult definition but it is really close.
@Notaname99 I don't think any cult ticks all the boxes of being a perfect cult.
Yes. it. is. is. a. CULT
It's a shame MAGA doesn't make records like The Cult!
@spunkycumfun no one could be the leader of the cult like robert smith!
@mysexualgoodtime Robert Smith is a living god!
@citizen4722 I was thinking that. Perhaps buying a sanctuary with love cats!
Given my knowledge of cults and their sociology, I am on the fence on this one. While I wholly recognize there are plenty of members of MAGA who seemingly venerate Trump uncritically, there are far too many loose ends for me to agree.
I want to be clear, anyone who uncritically supports anyone to the degree I’ve seen SOME Trump voters do sure seem as though they’re in a cult. And if it’s true they are, attacking them is not going to help. In fact, it’s more likely to entrench them further.
They’re going to need actual therapy if they’re in a cult to get over that attachment to it.
Clearly there are different types of MAGA supporters ranging from independents voting for Trump perhaps for the first time to diehard supporters. My argument is targeted at the latter group.
A deMAGAfication may be needed down the line if things get very entrenched, divisive and even violent.
Absolutely
It's very worrying. There's going to have to be a deMAGAfication programme!